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Udon (udon@social.076.ne.jp)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Sep-2022 21:34:35 JST

Udon

in reply to

@gnusocialjp
My Japanese is poor and it may be insufficient to express my idea, so I am going to use English here. (Feel free to reply in Japanese)

The point you try to justify Firefox's telemetry is they being "harmless", because they do not contain personal information defined by the law.

However, we were discussing whether their act is good or not, and law is artificial so they are useless on discussing problems out of the legal system.

Nothing should be sent without permission if they are unnecessary (even if they are "beneficial"), because why send those in advance? (Assume they are not malicious) The developers always know better than me? It doesn't matter what they sent, or where they are sending to (even to "good" sites like fsf.org). So, regarding to your reply "例えば、リクエスト回数、検索回数、検索キーワード、パソコンやソフトの性能、バージョン情報などは、個人を特定できないので無害です。", do you think it is harmless if these information are sent to multiple sites, including known trackers? (Note: The multiple of 0 is always 0. Harmless is very different from little harm. )

Let's forget what the law tell us which things are private or personal, the telemetries may not be that "harmless" as you thought. Even if we assume it is just a harmless simple GET, it still tells the IP, User Agent that you set, and the time you made your request. Something is sent (just not "personal"). Moreover, a small fragment of information maybe harmless or useless for now, but when they are accumulated enough, they could tell some stories.

And then why the nude photo is harmful? (It's just an example) Because a nude photo alone (wearing mask) isn't enough dox you too, unless you are talking about laws again.

And look, "harmless" or not is different to different people and perspectives (the Firefox telemetry is harmful to me). On the Firefox topic, you tried to justify it from developer's perspective. Telemetry is always beneficial to developers (so they will always justify their actions), since they can know more about users and the performance. But to users, they aren't all fine with that. Developer have their freedom to make bad software or malware while telling their touching stories on how many nights they spent creating them (it takes time to build malware too), it doesn't mean the software is good or not.

If they are good people, they will just simply ask you for permission on first start, or provide options to truly disable those unnecessary features (Like GNU Octave). So both sides of people can choose. But Firefox does not. It even gives you a guide, pretending they can all be off. While most of them can be off, some of them still remains, but they never mention this. Even if we look from developers' perspective, we don't just develop all the time. We are users too, and we will face the consequence justifying or normalizing the bad intentions.

In the end, it's just about the lack of user's permission. Again I will use the nude photo as example, there's nothing wrong if someone ask me to send my nude photo and I say it's ok. However it's very different if they send my nude photo without asking my permission. (If you still insist on the nude photo being harmful, replace it with any other harmless thing)

Also here is another example on "beneficial features" declared by the developers.
> Starting with Firefox 91.1, Firefox now includes changes to fall back to direct connections when Firefox makes an important request (such as those for updates) via a proxy configuration that fails. Ensuring these requests are completed successfully helps us deliver the latest important updates and protections to our users.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220906172313/https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/10/25/securing-the-proxy-api-for-firefox-add-ons/

k5x (kpherox@pl.kpherox.dev)'s status on Wednesday, 29-Sep-2021 19:39:21 JST

k5x

in reply to

Free Software Foundation (fsf@status.fsf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 19-May-2020 23:53:29 JST

Free Software Foundation

If Microsoft's #MSBuild conference really cared about "empowering developers," they would put the spotlight on software freedom. To ensure liberty for developers and users alike, and to guard against vendor lock-in, choose free software instead. https://fsf.org

Free Software Foundation (fsf@framasphere.org)'s status on Tuesday, 19-May-2020 23:53:27 JST

Free Software Foundation

If Microsoft's #MSBuild conference really cared about "empowering developers," they would put the spotlight on software freedom. To ensure liberty for developers and users alike, and to guard against vendor lock-in, choose free software instead. https://fsf.org

In Naraka (permanently) (mono@shitposter.club@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 29-Sep-2019 08:07:18 JST

In Naraka (permanently)

in reply to

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2019-09/msg00008.html

this seems to directly contradict the previous statement

From: Richard Stallman
Subject: GNU Project
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:20:25 -0400

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

On September 16 I resigned as president of the Free Software
Foundation, but the GNU Project and the FSF are not the same.
I am still the head of the GNU Project (the Chief GNUisance),
and I intend to continue as such.

--
Dr Richard Stallman
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

:anidab_right: More tsun tsun less dere dere :anidab_left: (kitsune@kowai.youkai.town)'s status on Wednesday, 05-Dec-2018 03:27:09 JST

:anidab_right: More tsun tsun less dere dere :anidab_left:

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14. Revised Versions of this License.

The Free Software Foundation may publish revised and/or new versions of
the GNU General Public License from time to time. Such new versions will
be similar in spirit to the present version, but may differ in detail to
address new problems or concerns.

Each version is given a distinguishing version number. If the
Program specifies that a certain numbered version of the GNU General
Public License "or any later version" applies to it, you have the
option of following the terms and conditions either of that numbered
version or of any later version published by the Free Software
Foundation. If the Program does not specify a version number of the
GNU General Public License, you may choose any version ever published
by the Free Software Foundation.

If the Program specifies that a proxy can decide which future
versions of the GNU General Public License can be used, that proxy's
public statement of acceptance of a version permanently authorizes you
to choose that version for the Program.

Later license versions may give you additional or different
permissions. However, no additional obligations are imposed on any
author or copyright holder as a result of your choosing to follow a
later version.

15. Disclaimer of Warranty.

THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY
APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT
HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY
OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM
IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF
ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.

16. Limitation of Liability.

IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITING
WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MODIFIES AND/OR CONVEYS
THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANY
GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THE
USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OF
DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRD
PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER PROGRAMS),
EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
SUCH DAMAGES.

17. Interpretation of Sections 15 and 16.

If the disclaimer of warranty and limitation of liability provided
above cannot be given local legal effect according to their terms,
reviewing courts shall apply local law that most closely approximates
an absolute waiver of all civil liability in connection with the
Program, unless a warranty or assumption of liability accompanies a
copy of the Program in return for a fee.

END OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS

How to Apply These Terms to Your New Programs

If you develop a new program, and you want it to be of the greatest
possible use to the public, the best way to achieve this is to make it
free software which everyone can redistribute and change under these terms.

To do so, attach the following notices to the program. It is safest
to attach them to the start of each source file to most effectively
state the exclusion of warranty; and each file should have at least
the "copyright" line and a pointer to where the full notice is found.

<one line to give the program's name and a brief idea of what it does.>
Copyright (C) <year> <name of author>

This program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
GNU General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with this program. If not, see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>.

Also add information on how to contact you by electronic and paper mail.

If the program does terminal interaction, make it output a short
notice like this when it starts in an interactive mode:

<program> Copyright (C) <year> <name of author>
This program comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `show w'.
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; type `show c' for details.

The hypothetical commands `show w' and `show c' should show the appropriate
parts of the General Public License. Of course, your program's commands
might be different; for a GUI interface, you would use an "about box".

You should also get your employer (if you work as a programmer) or school,
if any, to sign a "copyright disclaimer" for the program, if necessary.
For more information on this, and how to apply and follow the GNU GPL, see
<http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>.

The GNU General Public License does not permit incorporating your program
into proprietary programs. If your program is a subroutine library, you
may consider it more useful to permit linking proprietary applications with
the library. If this is what you want to do, use the GNU Lesser General
Public License instead of this License. But first, please read
<http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-not-lgpl.html>.

Public

Notices where this attachment appears