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@clacke @lain
eh, this is kinda dumb, like just listening to to natives you can get this intuitively right off, and trying to memorise it differently would mess with your phonotactics...
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apparently there was a big upheaval in the recent years were every chinese course switched from teaching the third tone as what it sounds like in theory to what it sounds like in practice
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@imurcultleader that's just how they roll
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@imurcultleader @clacke didn't take you for a masochist
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@imurcultleader i just wanna talk to people who open up because i'm foreign
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@shmibs @clacke well, the dumb part is that it's been taught as falling-rising when it's not that in most cases.
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@lain @clacke
being taught that way is a good thing, though, keeping the same intuition/internal "image" of the thing as a native speaker. if students couldn't "feel" right away without having to think that it works this way, with the "up" part of the down-up being absorbed when moving quickly into the next syllable, then that's a problem of not hearing it in practice enough from a few different native accents while being introduced
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@shmibs @clacke point is if you do falling-rising nobody can understand you. if you do low people understand you because that's what they actually do unless it's the final sound
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@shmibs @clacke didn't know you were that much of an idealist
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@lain @clacke
just see such things, approaching it so "cerebrally" and from a fundamentally outsider perspective, as being maybe shortcuts for some people, but things that become a huge problem later and can't be unlearned. stuff like "just imagine this sound as this similar, but not the same sound in your native tongue", it might get you speaking more quickly, but it pretty much calcifies a foreign accent, or like memorising 漢字 using that method you guys liked, maybe most people can cram them in more quickly that way, but they'll end up with an entirely different map of associations for each radical and character that impedes fluency later on
and, with this particular case, i know i was able to understand it intuitively within the first few minutes rather than breaking it down headily this way just from hearing a couple of natives pronounce it alone and then in example words and sentences at different speeds, so that the "feeling" of "down-up" is still there even when in practice the up is shonked away, instead of this sort of "well, sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not, and just memorise and remember these different cases" complication of things
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@lain @clacke
and like most importantly in this case is that that phantom "up" does still affect things, like "feeling" it there is what gives you the right timing for a natural cadence
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