Conversation
Notices
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"iq nut reel" t. turdbrain
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"yu jus cant mesur intelljens relativ to other pepo" t. flouridated flatskulled knuckle dragger
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"emotional intelligence is a form of intelligence" t. concave head sociologist
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@mono at least they can spell
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@lain EI was popularized by a fucking science journalist from the new york times. it's a worthless "stat" that no test can measure that has zero predicative ability. unlike IQ, EI is trivially easy to fake too.
thank you for reading my blog post
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@mono i wonder how much confidence in social situations correlates with IQ, tho.
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@lain EI literally only exists so leftists in academia can bash undesirables in fake studies as having low empathy for third world immigrants. every month there's some bullshit study about political leanings and emotional intelligence
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@lain confidence in social situations is a personality trait that may or may not have a connection to IQ.
confidence is probably unrelated to IQ just because confidence has little to do with actual ability, only one's ability to accurately self-evaluate.
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@mono @lain
eh, but brains do specialise, though, so trying to reduce to a scalar is at the least very lossy
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@mono so you're saying you just gotta roll a lot of 20s on your character creation
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@shmibs @lain
G impacts everything including emotional responses, and it is measurable.
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@mazuba @lain if this true then how come bier make you smarter and more confident at the same time?
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@mono @lain
autism exists and is a recognisable trait
anyways though, i didn't want to start talking about "emotional intelligence" in particular, but rather just point out that the ways our individual brains work varies too greatly to be easily measured
like sure, generalisations about "slow" and "fast" can be made, but the way modern computers using the exact same components but combining them in slightly different ways can be specialised for particular workloads (sometimes spreading across 8 cores is good [lots of processing power to spread across] and sometimes it's bad [memory bottlenecking and other overhead], or different cache layouts or strategies are specialised for different applications and so on) seems a decent parallel to draw with our own brains that rely much more on this sort of interconnection
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@shmibs @lain
IQ is like game benchmarks while G is a constructed broader ranking of where you are relative to everyone else. We might not know the individual factors but we do know the performance and results (to some degree). these numbers are useful because they're relative.
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@mono @lain
so i guess that's more an argument against precision in such measurements, rather than saying they can't be made
any precise measurement of "intelligence" glosses over the effects of specialisation in the same way it does natural day-to-day variation in performance and the affects of maturation and aging. people are just hard to pin down and constantly changing
when i got ranked at "140" or whatever when taking one of those IQ tests as a teenager (vaguely remember it being lots of word games and math puzzles and spatial reasoning), i expect if i had taken one again somewhere else, or on a different day when i was "performing" better or worse, things would have varied a great deal, as they would have with a different education or specialisation. and i also expect i would score much worse on such a test now than i did then, despite having matured through the rest of puberty and gained greater emotional insight in the process
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@shmibs @lain your test results will converge on a number if enough are taken (normalized for IQ decline due to aging). testing being imperfect doesn't mean it's not useful, especially when many many people are taking the same tests as you multiple times in similar environments. psychometrics is fairly rigorous and quantifiable compared to other fields in psychology.
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@mono @lain
might also say "benchmarks aren't in-practice workloads, however well-crafted"
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@shmibs @lain
also, most tests are a test of G. even tests of athleticism will show high G people coming out on top because of psychological factors.
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@se7en @mono @shmibs did you start watching anime in between?
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@mono @lain
anyways what point is there in measuring this stuff? besides bragging rights and dangerous propositions about segregation/unequal rights
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@shmibs @lain the point is to avoid an injustice where people who are not mentally capable of tasks are expected to do them anyways by society. we do not expect wheelchaired people to participate in water polo, and we should not expect the mentally incapable from being able to fill out their own tax forms unassisted.
the IQ test was invented to evaluate the mental combat fitness of drafted men. low IQ men on the battlefield are a huge liability and are many many times more likely to hurt themselves or allies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000
i don't hate people with low IQs, i empathize with them when they talk about how frustrating it is to be held to certain expectations that they would have to exert ten times the amount of effort an average man would just to fulfill. IQ blindness is a disastrous policy that hurts everyone, imo.
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@mono @lain
well, putting aside the wartime situation, and also situations of mental care, it seems like the best approach would be something more like
1. things legally required of everyone ought to be made as simple as possible
2. otherwise, for placements and promotions etc, performance in that particular position be the deciding factor
it's very important to be aware that such differences do exist, and that, for example, schoolchildren should not all be tied to some lowest-common-denominator, but the ideal there also would be, rather than a simple tiered approach, recognising that those students may perform better or worse in different environments or with information presented in a different way. to me that seems of at least equal importance, and something that isn't reflected in a 1d ranking
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@shmibs @mono @lain iq is very environmental, a lot of social policies could maximize it, in particular prenatal care and child nutrition. the gap narrows above "functional in society" without even thinking about iq differences in populations.
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@moonman @shmibs @lain
iq deficiency can be very environmental but G (and IQ by proxy) is objectively as heritable as one's hair color.
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@moonman @lain @shmibs also enough twin studies have BTFO the 'environment-primary' theory. having totally different parents in different countries is still less of an effect than genes alone. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=iq+twin+heritability
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@mono @lain
that's what user testing is for; no need for some generic middleman
and yes, i'm aware that things have gone much too far in the opposite direction in the US in particular, with that "no child left behind" thing etc. one danger for another isn't a good exchange though
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@se7en
it's better to just operate under the assumption that you're slightly above average (good enough to do basically everything one could possibly want to do with reasonable effort).
"real" IQ tests (the same ones psychologists use) are sold for a couple dollars on amazon.
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