Conversation

Notices

1. バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:38 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

   in reply to

   • spaceman
   @spaceman if you want to draw a causal chain, the one that makes the most sense here is:1. war on drugs spawns massive organised crime (just like prohibition-era mafia or mexico and its militarised cartels)2. massive organised crime spawns desensitised, paranoid, and hateful police (last group is smallest, but has lots of leeway because of unions and police-friendly justice system(themselves desensitised)) who kill, beat, and maim needlessly3. police brutality spawns protestingare the protestors being ineffectual?: largely (the narrative ought to be about reagan/biden's war on drugs and mass incarceration)are they *causing* gang violence?: that's a pretty stupid connection to makegang members are humans too. they don't like dying pointlessly, and beefing is usually limited, stand-off territory disputes or revenge killing. what's different about this year is bad business and stress because there's a pandemic on.and, if they *are* going to start shooting each other, they're not going to do it in the middle of an egging crowd with a bunch of police around
   • spaceman (spaceman@wurm.host)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:39 JST spaceman

     in reply to
     @shmibs > I care about a problem literally orders of magnitude smaller than what you're talking about, but please, consider the minutiae of my position, also here's rationalizations why an arrests are the more troubling issue, also have I complicated things with a whole separate topic? I mean, obviously, let's talk about drug policy. Let's never talk about how I care about ~1k deaths more than ~15k deaths. Why won't you take the time to read my pages of cope?
   • spaceman (spaceman@wurm.host)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:39 JST spaceman

     in reply to

     • spaceman
     @shmibs But please, gang-crime and drug policy expert Shmibs, do fucking go on...
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:40 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • spaceman
     @spacemannice.png
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:41 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • spaceman
     @spacemanhomicide has spiked, yesfrom what i've seen, it's also not been protest-related homicides, but rather gangs, sick of being cooped up and losing business, beefing more than usualhomicides so far actually caused by the protesting, there's been what...that one retired police guy, lady shot over saying "all lives matter", a few random people intentionally running over others (that accident on the highway shouldn't count as a homicide, but), a couple of angry-at-protestor guys walking into crowds and shooting people (not sure any deaths there? but definitely 3+ shot people)have been some, yes, but (at least how it appears to me) not protest related. there've been a few crazy mask-hating people killing others, but don't think that counts eitherregardless, gang violence is going nowhere without ending the drug war and decrimming drug use entirely (legal selling + better education would be ideal, but way too many control freaks for that to ever happen, so). maybe people aren't protesting for the things that would help them most, bit of skewed narrative, but not really fair to blame them for strangers killing each other
   • spaceman (spaceman@wurm.host)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:41 JST spaceman

     in reply to
     @shmibs tl;dr.
   • spaceman (spaceman@wurm.host)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:42 JST spaceman

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @shmibs @alex @issdeinschnitzel So, just to follow up on this. Police shot ~1k people in 2018 across the whole country, meanwhile the FBI estimates that 16,214 people were murdered. Chicago nearly hit 500 on its own in 2016.I think "police have killed far more people over the past few months than have people taking advantage of protest stuff" isn't evidenced at all, and rather all evidence suggests that violent thugs have taken every advantage.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:43 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • spaceman
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @spaceman @alex @issdeinschnitzel it's obviously a horrible thing that people conveniently ignore. makes sense for gang-fueled violence to spike after the whole quarantine situation, though. disease has been a major impediment to organised-crime-as-usual. non-violent crimes are down and tensions / homicides up
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:43 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • spaceman
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @spaceman @alex @issdeinschnitzel re: homicide up, other stuff downhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/upshot/murders-rising-crime-coronavirus.html?referringSource=articleSharere: police killing people (brief selection just from the past few days):https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/cop-who-threatened-kill-protesters-shoots-kills-colleague-who-knocked-door-affidavit-says/BMAXC27P7FA7LMIAXFQUJAHZJE/https://www.kmbc.com/article/restaurant-video-allegedly-captured-pettis-county-missouri-sedalia-deputy-shooting-hannah-fizer/32947701https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/city-of-springfield-pays-455-million-to-family-of-woman-killed-by-police-in-record-settlement.htmlhttps://abcnews.go.com/US/autopsy-results-confirm-andres-guardado-shot-back/story?id=71733798https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article243560527.htmlhttps://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/07/02/joliet-mayor-clearly-there-was-some-improper-behavior-by-officers-on-video-of-eric-lurry-before-he-died-in-custody/https://www.thetimesnews.com/news/20200717/no-prosecution-in-light-killingand some other exciting stuff:https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/springfield-mass-police-narcotics-squad-routinely-excessive-force/story?id=71695924https://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/more-lapd-officers-face-potential-criminal-charges-in-false-gang-data-investigation/2395341/https://www.chicagoreporter.com/chicago-police-department-arrest-api-shutdown-is-its-own-kind-of-cover-up/https://www.fauquier.com/news/updated-fauquier-sheriff-s-office-says-deputy-fabricated-roadside-assault-story/article_6d2a583e-c318-11ea-a336-df196f6f47b8.htmlhttps://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/coronavirus-closures-inflated-23-million-reported-in-downtown-portland-protest-damages.htmlhttps://www.normantranscript.com/cnhi_network/updated-cop-admits-hanging-comments-to-npd-detectives/article_7b727952-96eb-11ea-a6ea-1b9d2f70e631.htmlhttps://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/broward-deputy-luis-silberberg-arrested-for-overtime-fraud-11664766
   • spaceman (spaceman@wurm.host)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:44 JST spaceman

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @shmibs @alex @issdeinschnitzel "boys will kill boys" that's... glib, especially to then be so concerned over an arrest.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:45 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • spaceman
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @spaceman @alex @issdeinschnitzel chicago is chicago; kids murdering each other constantly there regardless for decades
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:46 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • spaceman
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @spaceman @alex @issdeinschnitzel police have killed far more people over the past few months than have people taking advantage of protest stuffnot that the stirring up anger between-people, "left" "right", part is at all a good thing, but
   • spaceman (spaceman@wurm.host)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:46 JST spaceman

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @shmibs @alex @issdeinschnitzel Could you cite that at all? Between NYC and Chicago I'd expect the numbers to fall heavily the other way.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:47 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • spaceman
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @spaceman @alex @issdeinschnitzel mmm, government doesn't like people protesting the government
   • spaceman (spaceman@wurm.host)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:47 JST spaceman

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @shmibs @alex @issdeinschnitzel also the murders, "protests" might be #1, but the murders, those might be #2.
   • spaceman (spaceman@wurm.host)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:48 JST spaceman

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @shmibs @alex @issdeinschnitzel But are you at all confused why the federal government would be motivated to act and take a hard line? Pointing out the motivators isn't an endorsement, so I'm not really selling police expansionism, but rather pointing out why it's happening.
   • spaceman (spaceman@wurm.host)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:49 JST spaceman

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @alex @issdeinschnitzel Yeah.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:49 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • spaceman
     • issdeinschnitzel
     @spaceman @alex @issdeinschnitzel this stuff hasn't been going on in portland, if people living there have talked with are to be believedsaying things like "protesting people been minor inconvenience to driving for the past 70 days"
   • Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:50 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • issdeinschnitzel
     @issdeinschnitzel I'm getting major V for Vendetta vibes from the whole thing.I get that this isn't black and white. But it's being handled so badly. The government is escalating the conflict. It only makes them look as authoritarian as the protesters say they are.
   • issdeinschnitzel (issdeinschnitzel@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:32:59 JST issdeinschnitzel

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     @alex Don't believe CNN. It's pretty clear they are not anonymous forces, but DHS agents.
   • Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 21-Jul-2020 08:33:00 JST Alex Gleason
     Portland is so fucked right now. The government is "disappearing" people. I don't ever want to hear the right-wing utter the word "freedom" again unless they're against this: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/18/opinions/portland-anonymous-security-forces-mark-of-dictatorship-ghitis/index.html