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1. バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 21-Sep-2020 11:53:20 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

   • nepfag
   • cy
   • Pro Male Collective
   @nepfag @promalecollective @cy are these people? and if, yes to all, what about in-vitro facilities? discarding all but those actually used. and how are anti-abortion laws to be enforced? what happens when there's a miscarriage? do you arrest (or aggressively investigate) the women involved in all of those approx 1-in-170 perinatal deaths? (about 24,000 a year)https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db316.htmhttps://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/birth-ratewhat about miscarriages during the first 3 weeks, which, given the embryo is tiny and yet to differentiate, tend to be mistaken for just particularly heavy, overdue menstruation? or what if it happens later, due to some ricky behaviour, but she never knew she was pregnant? this happens a lot more often than one would think, given obesity rates and spotty sex-ed. a friend's father is an ob-gyn and has encountered this situation multiple times, particularly among teenagersand all that aside, is it just-fine to force a woman go through an ordeal that carries a 1-in-5900 roulette chance of death? or 1-in-2300 if she happens to be brown-ish? or what about the at-the-least guaranteed decline in health and severe bodily harm?https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/maternal-mortality/pregnancy-mortality-surveillance-system.htmrape happens a lot. know here four other friends have experienced, and i'm not the most gregarious person. what do you do for them? require some "proof of rape"? ignore it as irrelevant? what if the person involved is 13-old child?, and mortality rates for both mother and fetus are much higher01.png02.jpg03.jpg
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 21-Sep-2020 14:31:45 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • cy
     @cy people need to ask these questions because "pure" ideology does not map well onto the real lives of real humans. edge-cases are people also, and course decisions make for a lot of edgesif rules are to be made, the people making them need to understand at least basic facts. that "abortion" usually means "take a few pills and menstruate" and not "slice open your stomach and stab-to-death a fully-formed infant post-caesarian". that an embryo is for a long time a tiny bundle of cells, and such embryos are passed out and die every day without anyone caring or even noticing. that mammals all start off development as ole-timey therapsid embryos, and are tweaked from there during growth to form the modern shapes we know (the pictures above being dividing cow zygotes (selected accidentally ????), and then human and dogthere's nowhere in here it makes sense to draw a hard "person/not-person" line, least of all at the single-cell level. if life "begins at conception" then what are homozygous twins? a single individual? and like even heterozygous twins swap cells all the time during development, or sometimes one absorbs the other entirely to make a chimaera. does that mean there are two people in one body? is henrietta lacks still alive because her tumour cells are around? when they're now considered a differentiated non-human species? (Helacyton gartleri)and, as soon as "person" is conceded as a line drawn best somewhere after that point of fertilisation, to deny abortion prior to that line becomes plain cruelty, given the definite pain and illness, possibility of death, and (particularly in cases of rape) emotional distress the forced mother will be put throughthis needs to be talked-through and some reasonable line drawn. if you wanted to be really conservative you could even put that line somewhere between 12-6 weeks or something, and then make that early-term service cheap, accessible, and well known, to minimise desperate people doing desperate things later. and, even with all that said, there will always be edge cases that need considering
   • cy (cy@fedicy.allowed.org)'s status on Monday, 21-Sep-2020 14:31:46 JST cy

     in reply to

     @shmibs I don’t think people should be asking those questions because we need to talk about important things, not wedge issues specifically tailored to keep us from agreeing with each other.

   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Wednesday, 23-Sep-2020 05:18:55 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • cy
     • Pro Male Collective
     @promalecollective @cy wat
   • Pro Male Collective (promalecollective@pleroma.site)'s status on Wednesday, 23-Sep-2020 05:18:57 JST Pro Male Collective

     in reply to

     • cy

     @cy @shmibs

     we’re killing the planet with capitalist overconsumption

     It’s mostly female consumption habits, as men account only for 1/5 of consumer spending. You’re not going to effectively tackle this problem without acknowledging its source, and blaming women is the last thing you want to do. Most men would rather see the world gone than push back against the gynocracy and its institutions. You’re in a good company.

     The middle class is gone, and the wealth gap is growing without bounds.

     The modern left is about appeasing women at all costs. The group that’s nothing to do with fair wealth redistribution (feminism) ends up hijacking the left. You might as well yell into the void about fiscal inequity for any good that trying to steer modern “leftists” in that direction does. So yeah, you better stick to abortion rights to get brownie points.

   • cy (cy@fedicy.allowed.org)'s status on Wednesday, 23-Sep-2020 05:18:58 JST cy

     in reply to

     @shmibs What I mean is even if someone disagrees with me, and thinks an abortion is bad, or thinks it is not bad, we’re still getting abused by unchecked landlords. We’re still seeing police confident enough of their power, to stand there watching murder on camera without intervening even when the killer tries to turn himself in. We’re still lonely, unfulfilled and isolated. We still do nothing to teach our children how to trust others. We’re still killing the planet with the propaganda driven overconsumption produced by a pyramid scheme known as capitalism. The middle class is gone, and the wealth gap is growing without bounds.

     So, let’s fix that stuff first. Then we can argue about what consitutes a person in fetus form.