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1. nikki (nik@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:47:55 JST nikki

   in reply to

   • Devine Lu Linvega
   • Csepp ????
   • Izzy Swart
   @neauoire @csepp @syntacticsugarglider most screen readers let you navigate a UI via audio, tap/click/tab through elements and you get instant feedback on what's being selected, letting you hear changes to the ui, hearing feedback on input you provide to the ui, etc. just reading the ui from start to finish is helpful in very few scenarios.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; likes this.
   • Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:47:57 JST Devine Lu Linvega

     in reply to

     • Csepp ????
     • Izzy Swart

     @csepp @syntacticsugarglider @nik Do you mean like pressing tab to go to the next option? Or speaking a command and selecting that option?

   • Csepp ???? (csepp@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:04 JST Csepp ????

     in reply to

     • Devine Lu Linvega
     • Izzy Swart

     @neauoire @syntacticsugarglider @nik Screen readers do more than that though, they also navigate UI nodes, list headings, etc. If there is no programmatic way to access that info, I don't see how it will work with a screen reader.

   • Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:06 JST Devine Lu Linvega

     in reply to

     • Csepp ????
     • Izzy Swart

     @csepp @syntacticsugarglider @nik It's so terribly simple that I've been doubting the entire notion that persistent UI is the way to go, if anything it makes that sort of thing a lot more difficult.

   • Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:07 JST Devine Lu Linvega

     in reply to

     • Csepp ????
     • Izzy Swart

     @csepp @syntacticsugarglider @nik I think it's a pretty "old fashion" way of doing it, and back then might have been quite a hassle to setup.

     I feel bad to always bring uxn into the conversation, but.. it's the only thing I know..

     uxnemu ./bin/application.rom | spd-say -t female2

     Send selected words(interface, or text body) of an immediate-ui drawn application, directly to a t2s engine and speak the words out.

   • Csepp ???? (csepp@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:08 JST Csepp ????

     in reply to

     • Devine Lu Linvega
     • Izzy Swart

     @neauoire @syntacticsugarglider @nik That's a relief. Although I haven't seen an immediate mode GUI that had screen reader support, but I guess they aren't fundamentally incompatible then? Or maybe accessible ones are out there and I just don't know about them.

   • Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:09 JST Devine Lu Linvega

     in reply to

     • Csepp ????
     • Izzy Swart

     @csepp @syntacticsugarglider @nik immediate mode doesn't necessarily draw new frames every tick. And it doesn't impact screen reader either.

   • Csepp ???? (csepp@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:10 JST Csepp ????

     in reply to

     • Devine Lu Linvega
     • Izzy Swart

     @syntacticsugarglider @neauoire @nik What if you can't just draw new frames on every tick because you are using an e-ink screen, or a remote display? And how do you navigate the UI nodes with a screen reader?

   • Izzy Swart (syntacticsugarglider@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:17 JST Izzy Swart

     in reply to

     • Devine Lu Linvega

     @neauoire @nik when it actually comes time to draw things to a framebuffer, which is pretty heavily abstracted away from in my set of opinions, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that persistent UIs aren't worth the trouble.

   • Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:18 JST Devine Lu Linvega

     in reply to

     • Izzy Swart

     @syntacticsugarglider @nik Just draw immediate UI for cross-platform, it's what I do with Uxn, easy as shit.

   • Izzy Swart (syntacticsugarglider@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:19 JST Izzy Swart

     in reply to

     • Devine Lu Linvega

     @nik @neauoire yeah unfortunately the current paradigm of building a user interface ex nihilo for every project that has to express a "brand identity" and shit is just categorically doomed nonsensethankfully that's not the paradigm anyone should want in the first place. a shared set of abstract UI primitives, not controls but interfaces at a less granular scale, that can be user-composed to introspect and operate on data is much more viable. and sensible. and expressive.

   • nikki (nik@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:20 JST nikki

     in reply to

     • Devine Lu Linvega
     • Izzy Swart
     @syntacticsugarglider @neauoire ive been putting a lot of thought into ui frameworks and such lately and it feels like every cross platform ui framework sucks ass and it's giving me the big despairthe fact that flutter is my biggest hope at this point is saying something
   • Izzy Swart (syntacticsugarglider@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:21 JST Izzy Swart

     in reply to

     • Devine Lu Linvega

     @neauoire part of their setup process now suggests you create an s3 bucket (AWS) to store blobs like images because their data model can't yet handle large files...honestly, there are plenty of people with interesting stacks but very few of those people have any substantive community around their work to support it and get it to a place that's as impressive as urbit (I don't care for urbit for a lot of reasons but a lot of work has gone into it thus far)

   • Devine Lu Linvega (neauoire@merveilles.town)'s status on Friday, 30-Jul-2021 00:48:22 JST Devine Lu Linvega

     I still receive Urbit's newsletter, even tho I have long lost interest(tiel/crypto/javascript 3 strikes ???? ), I clicked through their latest email to see what they were up to, where they were going.

     Their current focus is building an electron wrapper for their system. And even tho I have no sympathy for the project - it makes me feel a bit of despair as there are so few people trying to build new stacks, and I wonder why/how you can even go from "let's make a clean slate OS", to "on Electron"..