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1. [:planetvw:] えりす :sparkle_trans: (eris@disqordia.space)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:27 JST [:planetvw:] えりす :sparkle_trans:
   If public trust is the barrier preventing communities from getting vaccinated you'd think they'd do anything at all to address that, like community outreach, being transparent with what goes in it...
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:11 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • Latinx Lesbian
     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @meowski @swordsie @coyote @eris @icedquinn socrates was right about books(t. can't remember the actual quote without looking it up and being at risk of getting bamboozled
     バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; likes this.
   • Latinx Lesbian (meowski@fluf.club)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:13 JST Latinx Lesbian

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @swordsie @hakui @icedquinn @eris @coyote where are you coming up with this stuff? vaccines don't prevent exposure, they allow you mount an immune response and contain and eliminate infection before it spreads and causes diseaseat least, IN THEORY this is what they do, however the covid vax doesn't, beacuse it's approximately 0% effectiveyou're allowing the pharma shills to redefine what an effective vaccine is
   • swordsie swordington (swordsie@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:14 JST swordsie swordington

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • coyote

     @hakui @icedquinn @eris @coyote no vaccine has ever prevented infection, they prevent illness not infection

   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:15 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @swordsie @coyote @icedquinn @eris vaccines are supposed to prevent infection lolcope
   • swordsie swordington (swordsie@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:16 JST swordsie swordington

     in reply to

     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • coyote

     @coyote @icedquinn @eris

     thats effective against preventing any infection not its efficacy when stopping becoming symptomatic not in stopping disablement and death that figure is still 95+

   • coyote (coyote@enitor.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:17 JST coyote

     in reply to

     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • swordsie swordington
     @swordsie @icedquinn @eris > 40% effective against delta in 90+% vaccination countries> "proven highly effeftive":trollSmile:
   • swordsie swordington (swordsie@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:18 JST swordsie swordington

     in reply to

     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • coyote

     @icedquinn @eris @coyote in this case since the vaccines have proven to be highly effective, the default swing lies with taking it as it has been proven highly effective , and its efficay data in trial has now been confirmed even more so via infection rate monitoring .. and case tracking in hospitals it really will reduice your risk of disablement or death

   • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake: (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:19 JST Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:

     in reply to

     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @coyote @swordsie @eris as an aside, burden of proof in medicine is always biased towards unsafety. The intervention has to prove safety. Which has not been done because Moderna and Pfizer have punctured the placebo group and invalidated the RCT they were required to be doing for the FDA
   • coyote (coyote@enitor.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:20 JST coyote

     in reply to

     • swordsie swordington
     @swordsie @eris I'm done here, if you're gonna play this stupid game you're not worth anyone's time. Maybe for a laugh or two.And no, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. You made several claims which are totally bullshit "10-20 adverse events" is outright false. "Ivermectin is killing people" is outright false. And you claim there's no studies on ivermectin" which is also false. Back up your claims you NAZI BIGOT LMAO
   • coyote (coyote@enitor.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:22 JST coyote

     in reply to

     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington

     @swordsie @eris

     [FROM TRIALS OF WAR CRIMINALS BEFORE THE NUREMBERG MILITARY TRIBUNALS UNDER CONTROL COUNCIL LAW NO. 10. NUREMBERG, OCTOBER 1946–APRIL 1949. WASHINGTON, D.C.: U.S. G.P.O, 1949–1953.]PERMISSIBLE MEDICAL EXPERIMENTSThe great weight of the evidence before us is to the effect that certain types of medical experiments on human beings, when kept within reasonably well-defined bounds, conform to the ethics of the medical profession generally. The protagonists of the practice of human experimentation justify their views on the basis that such experiments yield results for the good of society that are unprocurable by other methods or means of study. All agree, however, that certain basic principles must be observed in order to satisfy moral, ethical and legal concepts:

     1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential.

     This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment.

     (Bold added for emphasis)

   • swordsie swordington (swordsie@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:22 JST swordsie swordington

     in reply to

     • coyote

     @coyote you revel your antiscientific and holocaust denying ways by bringing the Nuremburg code into things everyone who took place in vaccine trials _was_ a willing and informed participant, those medications passed those trials and were proven to work and you are making a mockery of both yourself and the survivors of legitimate medical torture

     as for your last question, thats not how science works , the burden of proof on the person promoting a medication for an illness

     @eris

   • coyote (coyote@enitor.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:23 JST coyote

     in reply to

     • swordsie swordington
     @swordsie @eris now address my other points too while you're at it, or you're essentially wasting my time.You're calling people Nazis while calling for forced medical treatments, it's just not a good look.
   • swordsie swordington (swordsie@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:24 JST swordsie swordington

     in reply to

     • coyote

     @coyote whoever told you that vaccines killed 25000 ppl is straight up just lying to you there have been around 10-20 cases of complications with most of the major vaccines each and most of them are only probable cause stuff, and the reason that ppl are not recommending Ivermectin 1) it dose not work (there is no credible clinical trial saying it works) and 2) ppl are infact getting killed at a high rate when they attempt to take it as a covid cure

     @eris

   • coyote (coyote@enitor.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:25 JST coyote

     in reply to

     • swordsie swordington
     @swordsie @eris It's worth thinking about corruption in the pharmaceuticals industry. Pfizer specifically has repeatedly created and distributed medicines for market that they know harm people and/or do not work and are not effective treatments. They've been sued repeatedly over that, and given out increasingly large settlements, up to 2billion$USD. They are also immune from any and all liability. It's worth thinking about Luc Montaigner, a 60+ year veteran of virology who discovered certain properties of mRNA and invented mRNA vaccine technology who says these vaccines are causing variants to be more deadly through a process called Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE). ADE happens because the vaccines are non-sterilizing. It's also worth noting there've been 25,000+ deaths *from the vaccine* in around half a year, and those are only the reported ones. Other people have been rendered paralyzed, immobilized, they developed seizures, among other major and minor problems also including death. Several studies on Ivermectin and some that looked at several countries' deployment, like Argentina, and found that it significantly reduced morbidity and case rates, and it's safe and effective with a 30+ year history, why won't pharmacies fill the prescriptions? Why won't doctors write them? Why are doctors, virologists, and other scientists being censored for talking about it? There are a lot of questions I and others have that are being ignored, and many data points that are outright rejected, and we are essentially being told "shut up, and do what you're told, or else"
   • swordsie swordington (swordsie@mstdn.social)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:01:26 JST swordsie swordington

     in reply to

     @eris the opposite, those refusing vaccines need to be bullied for being backwards and miseducated and nazis, the reality is you can already find out what goes in .. and there are plenty of infographics around for children about how vaccines function, they dont want to hear that, and no amount of explaining is to convince them, when for the majority of cases they dont have a problem with vaccines they have a problem with autistism and thinking the international jew wants them chiped

   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:21:11 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @hakui @meowski this is what whole esoteric writing tradition was about; "if the normal-people knew what i was saying bad things would happen"
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:21:12 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • Latinx Lesbian
     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @meowski @coyote @eris @icedquinn @swordsie i doubt it but okay
   • Latinx Lesbian (meowski@fluf.club)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:21:13 JST Latinx Lesbian

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @hakui @coyote @eris @icedquinn @swordsie people tend to view history with a certain bias though. only the smart and influential people and the innovators get remembered. i honestly don't think people are any dumber on average now, there's just a lot more of us and they all happen to be here right now mindlessly repeating the dogma (which is wrong, as it often is)
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:21:14 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • Latinx Lesbian
     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @meowski @coyote @eris @icedquinn @swordsie by classical standards, we are all degenerates, myself includedit's just unfortunate
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:21:15 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • Latinx Lesbian
     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @meowski @coyote @eris @icedquinn @swordsie he recalled (!!) a conversation between thamus and thoth, the latter who invented writing and was confident that his invention will make egyptians have better memory and wisdomthamus says that writing will on the contrary make people more forgetful because they just look things up instead of having to remember themwhich is exactly what's happening in our age
   • Latinx Lesbian (meowski@fluf.club)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:21:15 JST Latinx Lesbian

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @hakui @coyote @eris @icedquinn @swordsie there might be something to that. people do have a tendency to look something up and repeat what an expert says rather than employ some reasoning and their own experience
   • Latinx Lesbian (meowski@fluf.club)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:21:16 JST Latinx Lesbian

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Iced Quinn :blobcatverifiedfake:
     • coyote
     • swordsie swordington
     @hakui @coyote @eris @icedquinn @swordsie what did he say about books
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:39:20 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @hakui @meowski that's kind of why it matters though, or one reason why at least (reason number two belowesoteric writing (going back to mr socrates) was supposed to avoid two big dangers, both of which are kind of now happening since academic discussion opened up to the world- defensive "if the normal-people knew i was trespassing against the dogma they would attack / excommunicate / execute me", see the whole "cancelling" thing applied to e.g. people discussing lab leak scenario- protective "if the normal-people had access to my real opinions they wouldn't have the necessary prerequisite knowledge to evaluate them, and so would misinterpret and disseminate those misinterpretations, or fall victim to being misled by people intentionally misinterpreting", e.g. "this (retracted isolate) study proves that 〇〇 causes autism, and that's why you need to buy my oleander homeopathy eyedrops"so became standard practice to on the face of things write in accordance with popular dogma while hinting at real meaning underneath for people to find, or split things up like aristotle into "public facing" and "expert facing" writing. of course then you get called a straussian and everyone hates you for lying to them, so
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:39:21 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @shmibs @meowski turns out leaving it in writing didn't matter too much if people didn't know what they were reading
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:59:08 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @shmibs @meowski oh so that's what you meant by "knew" in "if the normal-people knew what i was saying bad things would happen"
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 14:59:08 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @hakui @meowski mmm, "knew i dare consider alternatives to the norm" or "knew the actual words i'm saying without having the means to correctly evaluate them"feels kind of hopeless. small-club science is untenable now (and anyways can't actually improve the world much), but open science is so too vulnerable to this pair of outcomes. only thing feels might help a little is better education and science communication, but then it's a balancing act trying to avoid talking over peoples' heads, oversimplifying so they get the wrong idea, and offending so they go and think/tell everyone the opposite
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:10:36 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @hakui @meowski mmm, like can't go to 13 old or middleschool graduate and immediately discuss e.g. information theory without having first gone over probability theorybecomes big inter-sciences problem now too since it's so difficult for a person to become an expert in even just one field, how to share relevant incites and discoveries, so not like a "you're just too stupid to understand" situation
   • Latinx Lesbian (meowski@fluf.club)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:10:37 JST Latinx Lesbian

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs @hakui >balancing act trying to avoid talking over peoples' headssounds kind of pretentious tbh. how much aderall do you take
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:10:37 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @meowski ? i thought @shmibs was just talking about pedagogy
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:21:43 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @hakui @meowski (never said anything about vaccination either
   • 御園はくい (hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:21:44 JST 御園はくい

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @meowski @shmibs oh i ignored the bad take about vaccines and homeopathy since this isn't a vaccine threadbut you do agree that learned men (not talking about academics) are frequently misunderstood across history yes?
   • Latinx Lesbian (meowski@fluf.club)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:21:45 JST Latinx Lesbian

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @hakui @shmibs in the context of academics being these benevolent protectors of knowledge which they really aren't, for the most partin fact they're mostly just shills who are doing nothing but making more of themselvesthen sprinkle in some of the little deboonking jabs against such and such (vaccines, obviously) causing autism, which by the way, they do- mix that with muh homeopathyanyway you get the ideapeople like this are disgusting and this psychotic drivel is typical of people who are twacked out on amphetamines, thinking they're a lot smarter than they are
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:30:30 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @meowski @hakui wasn't implying anything, which is why 〇〇like there are random retracted studies out there for whatever unexpected connection attention-wanting science-person can think of, especially around hot topics like autism / cancer / whatever, and an army of opportunists using them to sell placebo or slightly-poisonous miracle cures
   • Latinx Lesbian (meowski@fluf.club)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:30:31 JST Latinx Lesbian

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs @hakui oh really what were you implying caused autism that some hypothetical person was going to offer homeopathy as a cure for
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:36:45 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @meowski @hakui because that's basically what i'm saying, yes, along with plato/socrates (socratic method) and every other pre-enlightenment thinker-person. understanding a thing requires a progressive chain of studying a to understand b to understand c, and a person without a and b can misinterpret c and draw the wrong conclusion...and none? meth guys are scary
   • Latinx Lesbian (meowski@fluf.club)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:36:46 JST Latinx Lesbian

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs @hakui what i'm hearing is "common people can't handle science, they will misinterpret and abuse this knowledge"anyway just how much amphetamines, tell me. it's ok.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:43:53 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • Latinx Lesbian
     @meowski @hakui i'm not, and you're getting weirdly fixatedand if you read above was talking about is the opposite of sequestering, rather trying expressly to spread knowledge. sequestering is not even an option at this point, and i prefer the more open modern world where anyone can try to learn anything; it's way more fun and interesting. just potential pitfalls exist; need a way to try and minimise those (probably hopeless but
   • Latinx Lesbian (meowski@fluf.club)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-2021 15:43:54 JST Latinx Lesbian

     in reply to

     • 御園はくい
     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs @hakui i have less than zero patience (and tax money) for elitist scientists who think they need to sequester knowledge away from the unwashed masses. this is a dangerous ideology. don't bs me either, i know you're on aderall or something like that