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I myself am rather fond of the idea of the nation state; I think each people should have their own place to call home and poke their nose in each other's business as little as possible. so I think stomping on your neighbor is bad manners. gathering many nationalities under the same flag has never ended well for anyone, neither has the development of vagabond peoples. if it was just about "bringing his people back home" I'd be more sympathetic but there are clearly grander plans at play.
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@sampo @hj @thendrix here this small corner merika we grew without much sense of anything like a "nation" or "people". everyone looked different and behaved differently, and it was like whatevermaybe comes of living a recent city too, basically built in a few decades
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@thendrix @hj people will naturally emulate the concept of the nation state and yearn to be with their own, and with enough separation and autonomy I guess it can work to a degree, effectively it's the same thing that I described but in a smaller scale. the trouble begins when you try to govern all of the different sorts of people as one, or things start heading too far in the "melting pot" direction, both of which america has its share of.
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@sampo @hj To tell the truth the US has a lot of small pockets of other nations all over. If I drive a bit there is an entire city with most writing in Korean. Not just a few blocks of a large city. Similar for Indian/Pakistani/ME Arab nooks. It is interesting we may have mosques and Korean Christian churches driving down one road.I like being able to visit them all so close by... and there are a few conflicts of culture and ideas but it mostly works. The only way it works is we all agree on principals of freedom from religion, association, and firearms. "Good fences make good neighbors" has some truth to it. Everyone has the right to self defense now as we removed Jim Crow laws. These communities learned that the hard way in other states before moving here more often than not. For example many Koreans first moved here en masse after the LA riots. Gun control laws are often Jim Crow era left overs.
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@hj I think it's actually very simple if you're not too autistic about it, I could talk to any person for 5 minutes and tell you whether or not they're a Finn. these groups are largely still intact all over the world, international movement of people has destroyed relatively little of it in the large scale of things, so far. the exception of course being the abomination that is america. so very little would have to be changed, it's not like every people is diaspora'd all over the place.what comes to bigger nations swallowing smaller nations and violations of the sovereignty of others, that is of course the violator's own damn business. they're trading the potential profit for a foreign people now living in their region, and all the trouble that comes with it. if they keep them, it's a burden. if they genocide them, it's also a lot of work. once this happens a few times it becomes unbearable and the system resets itself. it is an ever repeating cycle throughout history. nonetheless i think it's a stupid and bad thing to do, but the reality of it is that no one asks me what i think.
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@sampo problem with that is that concept of a "nation" is very loose, ethnicity is also very loose, also sizes of nations are different so smaller "nations" would end up being swallowed by bigger "nations". Lastly the whole "poke their nose in each other's businesses as little as possible" is simply, uh, impossible, and i don't mean some people's noses are naturally bigger *rubbety-rub*, i mean it's same as NAP - violating it is too damn easy and potentially very profitable.1425652154364.jpg
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@sampo @hj @thendrix eh hmmm, guess also can't understand the reverse, but really didn't feel like missing anything. rather because "everyone is weird" it felt like people were all accepting of weird and could be close regardless. some generation gap too though, like olders did care more about "preserving culture" and "race" and "no gay >:|", but around my age was "eh, sure, seems fine ????" and just being close with friends instead of larger "traditions/norms", and getting really turned off adults trying to make us care. and on personal level i think that's healthier (+ not hurting others for no reason), but maybe it also leads to government-scale cohesion degrading, so that can be vulnerable to exploitno idea what's up with now's like ~20-olds, though; internet doing weird things to them <_>
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@shmibs @hj @thendrix I of course can't really imagine what it's like, but I think I'd feel very alone. here the cultural feeling of belonging and 'oneness', so to say, is very strong.
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