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1. Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@berserker.town)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:16:47 JST Hyolobrika

   If solipsism was real, I wouldn't be surprised at anything.Checkmate imaginary solipsists other than me.

   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:16:36 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • lain
     @lain @Hyolobrika some more steps needed there?, yehone could still be a proper subset of some universe without there being any other conscious entities within it, so if you're not going some kind of idealism
   • lain (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:16:38 JST lain

     in reply to
     @Hyolobrika i don't think solipsism implies omniscience.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:23:58 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • lain
     @lain @Hyolobrika mmm, i guess was going with "internal model can produce something then i 'understand' it; and if i 'understand' it then i won't be surprised by it. and if all the universe is inside of you (some weird idealist+solipsist perspective) then it's all your internal model and not surprising, which requires reading unknowns from somewhere else. because if go rather "anything computationally irreducible is surprising" then that just applies to everything? definitions, though
   • lain (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:23:59 JST lain

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs @Hyolobrika i mean, we're probably NP complete, so there's no way to figure out what's up without doing it, so there's no way of knowing everything before it happens, even in a solipsist worldview.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:31:52 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • lain
     @lain @Hyolobrika mmm mmm, that brings up the problem of "drawing boundaries around the self" of course, which i have no idea how to do and which in practice seem to grow and shrink anyways (me+vim as growing, dissociative states as shrinking etc (and kinda proves point in practice, how when badly dissociating everything even one's own body does is a surprise)i think self definitely does not include everything, though, and was only giving that solipsism+someidealism as an alternative set of (weird and seems indefensible assuming we have similar personal experiences? (and they really do have experiences ????)) axioms some people have worked from that could imply
   • lain (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:31:53 JST lain

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs @Hyolobrika if you look at a surprising math proof as a solipsist, was that inside you or not? do you think math exists outside of a solipsist being? if only you exist, can you never be surprised by a logical deduction?
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:34:34 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • lain
     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @lain @Hyolobrika and i guess anyways understanding and surprise are themselves just generated feelings by some pattern-matcher that can't be reduced, so
   • lain (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:37:51 JST lain

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs @Hyolobrika maybe solipsism isn't possible, but the question was 'could i be surprised if i were the only thing in existence', and i think you could, both by your own thoughts about yourself and by your own thoughts about logical deductions.
     バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; likes this.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:38:58 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • lain
     @lain @Hyolobrika yeh, requires "self" to be irreducible, not composed of parts that exchange information, which to me does just seem wrong (think that was embedded in the above, but not being very clear
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Mar-2022 10:40:43 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • lain
     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @lain @Hyolobrika (ah, sorry for mixing different uses for "reduced". ought to have said here 'a unit' or something