exactly my conclusion, its not out of care for the actual children or desire to solve actual problems, instead its out of desire for cruelty, even if its a small inconvenience.
which entirely explains why they oppose loli art. if the existence of the art reduces the amount of actual victims in the world by means of deferring the incentive of the perpetrators, then any sane person, regardless whether they find the art distasteful would come to the conclusion that its better if a lower number of kids get victimized..
but these puritans are willing to sacrifice that benefit of the art, and are unwilling to address the reality of actual kids who would suffer because of the ban, if they could just inconvenience the supposed pedos just a bit more
@SuckMyDick@p@Jojothegoodperson@deadheat@meowski@yang if you want to put it like that, i refuse to accept that drawn art of nonexistent people (no matter how convincing) should ever be considered the same thing as porn (videos/images of real people), but unfortunately they are being considered the same thing by society at large. but now that the distinction has been made, i see no risk in opposing people who want to ban the former.
the key here is asking the question "why was child porn banned in the first place"
the answer is NOT "because to purify society of pedophiles". because pedophiles will never cease to exist. they'll just pretend that they aren't pedophiles and you will not succeed - the problem will never be solved and that's what every tyrant wants. a non solvable problem that can be used as an excuse to control individuals with impudence and use the pejorative as an accusation to bully people into conformity, and therefore have ultimate control over them.
the real answer is that revoking the opportunity for people to make money by means of filming the prostitution of kids, directly benefits society, because it disincentivizes the free market from manipulating kids into acts that they would not otherwise want to participate in, and would not have the necessary mindset of an experienced adult to refuse, or to even realize that they have the opportunity to refuse. so the law puts this safeguard, so that you end up raising mentally stable and well established individuals. this is all concerned with REAL people, and not fake drawings.
its for the exact same reason that there is a legal age requirement if you want to get a job. so that if you're someone young who doesn't know any better, you don't get exploited in backbreaking jobs, but can instead can have the opportunity to invest your time to become better than anyone before you, or even just better for yourself and your immediate circle of people. otherwise you just end up a slave for life.
drawings don't grow up to control society. drawings do not build up resentment and wrath towards a society that raises them. drawings won't do a mass shooting, or become serial killers.
people want to ban lewd loli drawings though. why? because its uncomfortable to see.
the SJW wants to ban hatespeech. why? because it is uncomfortable to hear.
the islamist wants to ban criticizm of islam. why? because it is uncomfortable to disregard what which is seen as sacred
be the communist wants to ban criticizm of the government. why? because it is uncomfortable to be told that you're a tyrant (also plays to disadvantage of the "dear leader" politically)
some people a while ago wanted to ban some well made sex dolls that look convincingly like little girls. why the backlash when if anything that additionally would defer a pedophile's incentives to commit crimes? because people felt "uncomfortable" that a pedophile would have a sex doll
"uncomfortable", "uncomfortable","uncomfortable" you will not succeed in getting rid of things that are uncomfortable, you will only further damage society by giving tyrants the excuse to control.
if you cant take the responsibility to control yourself when you encounter something uncomfortable, don't worry, someone else will, and they will do it with utmost impudence and brutality. but the unsolvable problem will always be unsolvable, therefore all the more excuse for impudence and brutality, until the masses realize that moral puritanism is a goal just as useless as moral equity.
if you want to ban something, that better have direct relation to a real problem in the world, as well as evidence to back up the direct relation. otherwise you're on the slippery slope of puritanism, where everything is unpure and requires to be banned, just because it is uncomfortable.
when a disagreement manifests itself, its a good practice to attempt to craft a reply, even if incomplete, silly or not entirely effective, it helps to sharpen one's arguments for future altercations
if you want to make predictions of the future, such as "they will victimize children at some point", you'd better bring a crystal ball and be awfully convincing that you visited the college of winterhold, or you will not go very far.
western morality is very clear on the subject, innocent until proven guilty. "person X is going to commit a crime" is not a prosecutable offence.
it's for this reason that plenty of puritans, such as yourself, try to make a case for legally banning different non-violent non-infringing practices. because you think that there is a relation between how much drawn loli's people masturbate to VS how many actual children are being victimized.
but you've yet to prove that. there is no statistic which shows such a relation, yet you want to outlaw non-violent, non-infringing practices nonetheless.
in fact if there WAS such a statistic, i would be more inclined to believe that it looks something more like the crime rate in the UK, the more they try to ban knives, the more knife attacks happen
the reason as to why i think that, is a very logical one, if, lets say, a random pedophile wants to masturbate today however doesn't want to risk getting arrested and (obviously) have their life ruined for breaking the law, which one of these two things are they more likely to pursue:
1. would they prefer to go in public and look for a victim (with all the risks involved in that) or
2. would they prefer to stay at home and crank one out to some drawing, certainly with no risk of braking the law
now lets say you hypothetically somehow delete all the loli art out of existence, thereby completely eradicating option 2 and subsequently leaving option 1 as the only available option
do you think leaving the pedos with the only the option of committing a violent crime, as a means of masturbation, would reduce the number victimized children or increase it
additionally, if all the loli drawings were erased, do you actually think pedophiles disappear or stop being pedophiles?? that would be quite wishful of you.
in summary, if you'd get rid of all the loli hentai, you get rid of the only outlet pedos have, their only next option is real cp or real targets. if you really cared about the actual problem of real kids being victimized you wouldn't be caring about others' drawings or fantasies
but i don't think you actually want to solve the problem, in fact i think the underlying reasons for your entire argument, about the disapproval of others' fantasies and somesuch, can be boiled down to "its uncomfortable that people fantasize about children". you're worthless to your own cause.
you have no data to show a relation between the amount of loli hentai someone has masturbated to VS the amount of kids they've victimized. yet you claim to know the true answer "ban it", good luck.
fantasies aren't real children, neither are drawings.
@Beekeeper@succucirno@Jojothegoodperson@Mikoto@SuckMyDick@deadheat@meowski@p@rawrrawrfox@yang loli is legal in the US, theyve already tried charging people for that, its failed over and over. Thats why pixv is hosted in the US, thats why lolibooru is hosted in the us, thats why 7chan had a loli board for almost 12 years. Thats why non of kiwifarms autism isnt getting atf shut down (only got a server hosted in sweden shut down).
and that would be a crime that is infinitely worse than holding a desire that you never planned to act upon
those people you meantioned are much worse than the people you are currently in disagreement with, however you show them much less antipathy than you've shown to us. and by the way, we never desired to kill or rape anyone, just wanted to wank to my drawings. somehow that makes me worse than an actual murderer
but hey, you're the self-righteous tyrant here, feel free to sympathize with the death of (innocent) people for their opinions and fantasies, im sure that's a justified cause
if bringing back policies that require murder is acceptable now, then whats your argument against antifa, who urgently want to bring back communism with your head on a pike.
the whole point of opposing antifa was that they are insane for wanting to intimidate people for their opinions, and act like a backstabbing cult. a trend that inevitably turns murderous, prediction based on any example of cults you can find. and here you are doing exactly that.
unable to respond coherently to an argument, the only rational people so far as you're concerned are the ones that conform to you and wish death on your opposition, shortly before they turn their sights on their own
that's inaccurate. there are plenty of people who defend freedom of art, who do not engage in loli art, but nonetheless the principle is the same for all art, and thus they defend it.
this meas that there ARE people who will defend loli art but are not a danger to children
no, actually the only reason this conversation is happening is entirely due to loli drawings.
you're the one bringing up the supposed victims that have no relation to loli art.
nobody in this thread has described a fantasy that they had, and if they had actually gone and described their fantasies, it still wouldn't make it a crime.
im sure if you start calling you opposition jews (even if inaccurate) that will help you sleep at night and give you the illusion that you weren't wrong the whole time. nobody here agrees with that illusion though.
if your arguments are logically inconsistent, there's no amount of jewcrying you can do to fix the inconsistency.
and the statement talks about a "minor", which his an actual real person and not a mere drawing
how silly would it be if i drew a picture of an old grandma, and the picture is 10 seconds old (because i literally just drew it), therefore the picture is underage
this is the sort of person to whom i used to be able to legally refer to as a fagget just 4 years ago
so in order to not break the law i will instead call him an NPC
see how diligent i am to not break the law? still think loli art just magically makes people break the law? like video games supposedly do? like D&D supposedly makes people into satanists?
im sure you see the hypocrisy in this, and if not you would have made an honest argument about it by now..
instead its just that you've doubled down so much now that you'll never admit it to yourself, that you were wrong the whole time...
/ignoring your accusation of what i have or have not admitted, because its inaccurate/
so your argument is basically to kill people for holding an opinion and admitting to it?
because if they have not committed sexual acts with children, then they technically are an innocent person who would be admitting to be a pedophile but would not actually be guilty of something that they have done to anyone, because they havent...
and you cant stand that someone can hold that opinion, despite not actually doing anything bad, therefore you want them killed
and my argument is that if the act of fucking a kid never took place, the person who merely claims to desire it has done nothing wrong.
i mean you don't even know if they're lying to you or not. and additionally no actual damage has been done to require justice to be served. when you start to preemptively take violent action, you become the one who does damage instead.
you claim to be care about the kids' well-being, and in your efforts to show yourself to be a caring person. but in your practice of how you are willing to treat the supposed pedophile (even if you dont know for sure that they're a pedophile), you don't actually behave in a caring way
if you're not willing to hold yourself to a principle, why should then people take you seriously and not as just another virtue-signalling rando, who will misuse any authority given to him
in order to convict more people, the laws need to be vaguer, and the standards of evidence need to be reduced, thereby allowing the legal system to convict more supposed criminals, with innocent people among them.
the question here is: are you ok with an innocent person going to prison? if 9 out of 10 people really were pedophiles, is it justified to sacrifice that 1 innocent person for the sake of convicting the majority? because this is what inevitably will happen once the legal system begins to degenerate in the direction you desire.
if your answer is yes, if you think that sending 1 innocent person for the sake of convicting 9 baddies is justified, then that means that if that 1 person happened to be your family member, your kid, your friend or even yourself, if you yourself were to be prosecuted unjustly under this new (and righteous legal system as far as you're concerned), then you should be perfectly happy to go to prison right now, to make that sacrifice as an innocent person, knowing that 9 others who are guilty have also gone to prison
do you want a world that allows for innocent people to go to prison or even be killed by the government? if yes, then when it starts happening to you, an innocent person, you should remember this moment an be very happy about yourself in your situation.
what's that? you end up in an unjust situation and are unhappy with your situation?
cant bring yourself to accept that you, an innocent person, would get brutalized by your government, that was specifically built up to allow innocent people to be brutalized, through the degenerated legal system, as you initially advocated for?
not a very clever decision in the first place, is it..
i will now copy-paste from my initial post, because you've gone full circle and forgotten where we started
the key here is asking the question "why was child porn banned in the first place"
the answer is NOT "because to purify society of pedophiles". because pedophiles will never cease to exist. they'll just pretend that they aren't pedophiles and you will not succeed - the problem will never be solved and that's what every tyrant wants. a non solvable problem that can be used as an excuse to control individuals with impudence and use the pejorative as an accusation to bully people into conformity, and therefore have ultimate control over them.
the real answer is that revoking the opportunity for people to make money by means of filming the prostitution of kids, directly benefits society, because it disincentivizes the free market from manipulating kids into acts that they would not otherwise want to participate in, and would not have the necessary mindset of an experienced adult to refuse, or to even realize that they have the opportunity to refuse. so the law puts this safeguard, so that you end up raising mentally stable and well established individuals. this is all concerned with REAL people, and not fake drawings.
its for the exact same reason that there is a legal age requirement if you want to get a job. so that if you're someone young who doesn't know any better, you don't get exploited in backbreaking jobs, but can instead can have the opportunity to invest your time to become better than anyone before you, or even just better for yourself and your immediate circle of people. otherwise you just end up a slave for life.
drawings don't grow up to control society. drawings do not build up resentment and wrath towards a society that raises them. drawings won't do a mass shooting, or become serial killers.
people want to ban lewd loli drawings though. why? because its uncomfortable to see.
the SJW wants to ban hatespeech. why? because it is uncomfortable to hear.
the islamist wants to ban criticizm of islam. why? because it is uncomfortable to disregard what which is seen as sacred
be the communist wants to ban criticizm of the government. why? because it is uncomfortable to be told that you're a tyrant (also plays to disadvantage of the "dear leader" politically)
some people a while ago wanted to ban some well made sex dolls that look convincingly like little girls. why the backlash when if anything that additionally would defer a pedophile's incentives to commit crimes? because people felt "uncomfortable" that a pedophile would have a sex doll
"uncomfortable", "uncomfortable","uncomfortable" you will not succeed in getting rid of things that are uncomfortable, you will only further damage society by giving tyrants the excuse to control.
if you cant take the responsibility to control yourself when you encounter something uncomfortable, don't worry, someone else will, and they will do it with utmost impudence and brutality. but the unsolvable problem will always be unsolvable, therefore all the more excuse for impudence and brutality, until the masses realize that moral puritanism is a goal just as useless as moral equity.
if you want to ban something, that better have direct relation to a real problem in the world, as well as evidence to back up the direct relation. otherwise you're on the slippery slope of puritanism, where everything is unpure and requires to be banned, just because it is uncomfortable.
you've also gone full circle and forgotten where we started, so let me copy-paste remind you too
the key here is asking the question "why was child porn banned in the first place"
the answer is NOT "because to purify society of pedophiles". because pedophiles will never cease to exist. they'll just pretend that they aren't pedophiles and you will not succeed - the problem will never be solved and that's what every tyrant wants. a non solvable problem that can be used as an excuse to control individuals with impudence and use the pejorative as an accusation to bully people into conformity, and therefore have ultimate control over them.
the real answer is that revoking the opportunity for people to make money by means of filming the prostitution of kids, directly benefits society, because it disincentivizes the free market from manipulating kids into acts that they would not otherwise want to participate in, and would not have the necessary mindset of an experienced adult to refuse, or to even realize that they have the opportunity to refuse. so the law puts this safeguard, so that you end up raising mentally stable and well established individuals. this is all concerned with REAL people, and not fake drawings.
its for the exact same reason that there is a legal age requirement if you want to get a job. so that if you're someone young who doesn't know any better, you don't get exploited in backbreaking jobs, but can instead can have the opportunity to invest your time to become better than anyone before you, or even just better for yourself and your immediate circle of people. otherwise you just end up a slave for life.
drawings don't grow up to control society. drawings do not build up resentment and wrath towards a society that raises them. drawings won't do a mass shooting, or become serial killers.
people want to ban lewd loli drawings though. why? because its uncomfortable to see.
the SJW wants to ban hatespeech. why? because it is uncomfortable to hear.
the islamist wants to ban criticizm of islam. why? because it is uncomfortable to disregard what which is seen as sacred
be the communist wants to ban criticizm of the government. why? because it is uncomfortable to be told that you're a tyrant (also plays to disadvantage of the "dear leader" politically)
some people a while ago wanted to ban some well made sex dolls that look convincingly like little girls. why the backlash when if anything that additionally would defer a pedophile's incentives to commit crimes? because people felt "uncomfortable" that a pedophile would have a sex doll
"uncomfortable", "uncomfortable","uncomfortable" you will not succeed in getting rid of things that are uncomfortable, you will only further damage society by giving tyrants the excuse to control.
if you cant take the responsibility to control yourself when you encounter something uncomfortable, don't worry, someone else will, and they will do it with utmost impudence and brutality. but the unsolvable problem will always be unsolvable, therefore all the more excuse for impudence and brutality, until the masses realize that moral puritanism is a goal just as useless as moral equity.
if you want to ban something, that better have direct relation to a real problem in the world, as well as evidence to back up the direct relation. otherwise you're on the slippery slope of puritanism, where everything is unpure and requires to be banned, just because it is uncomfortable.
that explains why you never made any coherent arguments in the first place, and why you did not want to engage with coherent arguments presented to you
> runs out of arguments > resorts to calling for death because no arguments > claims never was in debate, to deflect own stupidity > "Yeah it's really kind of strange how defensive they are." > thinks he's in a debate all of a sudden > thinks others are defensive, but definitely not himself
There are two people on bikes. A guy in a 64 Impala rolls by. The first cyclist thinks about how to get a six-fo. The second one wants to make the driver ride a bike. Just how people are.
yeah that's exactly the one, its also been described in a similar way by saul alinsky in rules for radicals, where he theorized that there are three groups of people
the "have" group (broadly speaking the wealthy) the "have a little but want more" (broadly middle class) and the "not have" group
and in order for the "have a little, but want more" group to get what they want most effectively, they weaponize the "not have" group by sympathizing with them and turning them against the "have" group.
but the "have a little, but want more" group doesn't do it out of compassion for the "not have" group, but out of resentment that the "have" group has more than themselves.
when talking about emotional manipulation, negative emotions are naturally stronger (have more impact) than positive emotions, so it makes sense that mass appeal to negative emotions ends up being a more effective tactic towards the unsuspecting/uneducated/naive/wishful people.
this is maybe why we have the common saying "love always wins in the end" which probably came about as a way to defer from the ever-present negativity of life, but then again, what do i know, i could just be talking out of my ass now