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anxiety machine go brr
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@rizzo oh yeah
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@nik @rizzo (be careful, though; too much meditate can make you nervous also ._.
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@nik super anxious guy from work. That you said meditates. Every day
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@rizzo work man?
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@nik become like ur work man. Meditate it out. Thats what I did and now I'm a lot more powerful.
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@nik @rizzo (or like dunno that's problem for you though, but it can set off bad dissociation in people not used to it, but if you're the sort already auto-pilot dissociating then it can be sort of practice to control it
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@nik @rizzo mmm yeh, then can definitely help. still detatched, but like swapping controlled for uncontrolled, which is easier to come down from. too much can still be bad, though
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@shmibs @rizzo i am one of those auto-pilot dissociaty people but i don't like it, it's gotten slightly better over time but if im in a bad mood or physical state i can't prevent it
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@rizzo @nik too much meditating detatches you from body and existing, whole reason it was picked up by buddhism, dudes were like "this world is decay and nothingness and we must depart from it" and noticed that meditating makes you dissociate so you don't feel emotions or like you belong in your body any more, floaty brainthe meditation is good for you thing came later, little in the mahayana for-the-masses adaptation but mostly in buddhism's overhaul to appeal to westerners, after which it was really played up that way in order to sell expensive meditation retreats to business guys and culture moms
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@shmibs @nik then you ain't meditating right. Too much meditation is supposed to unfold your mind like a lotus flower. uwu.
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@rizzo @nik ＊decay and somethingness, rather, and nothingness was the desired alternativeand there are "different approaches", like no-thoughts-head-empty vs focussing-really-hard-on-one-thing etc, but they kinda all do the same thing eventually if you keep it up for days in a row on a retreat or n hours every day or something
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@rizzo @shibao @nik some things:https://harpers.org/archive/2021/04/lost-in-thought-psychological-risks-of-meditation/https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2167702621996340https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0176239https://www.cheetahhouse.org/symptoms2021-1622141772.png2021-1622141557.png
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@shibao @nik @shmibs solid meditation though. I'd start by not turning off the thoughts. But not holding attachment to the thoughts and letting them drift away like a stream. And then important thoughts will come in. Like "wtf what about that random bill." Or "what about this emotion that you've been suppressing for a while but you definitely still have it you're just unaware of it because youve been thinking about other things." Or I'll try to meditate and then notice something is on the floor and then I just end up cleaning my room.
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@rizzo @shmibs @nik yknow how someone might feel a kink in your back and work it out in a massage,i like being aware of ur senses and everything you're feeling in the moment, and then seeing if there are any thoughts that you can follow before putting them to rest and returning to the present, or that's how i try to meditate igi should read more meditation book
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@shmibs @nik meditation is supposed to do the opposite of dissociating. Instead of dissociating your suppose to associate. Yes you are supposed to be detached from the body and the thoughts. But it is in order to seek clarification. To associate with conciousnous. Sometimes meditation focuses on the senses. If you turn off the commentary your mind can focus on everything surrounding you and details become more enhanced. A quick glance of a leaf will give you a leaf. A long glance at a leaf will give you each individual vein of the leaf. With meditation instead of observing the commentary of your brain you are observing. Therefore you can observe your mind in you focus on the mind instead of the senses. In dissociating you go into nothingness meditation is much different than nothingness and much harder than nothingness.
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@rizzo @nik @shibao modern meditation was basically invented for buddhist-retreats-for-white-peoplethose two books talk about, pre-contact buddhism for normal people was mostly shrines and rituals and praying to gods and trying to max out your goodness points etc. and for the fancy monks who did use meditation it was a method for dissociating
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@shmibs @nik @shibao this is just making me hate Buddhist retreats for white people. Not meditation.
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@rizzo @nik @shibao what you're calling detachment is dissociating, "retreat into a small part of your brain and dull or disable signals from outside it"it can happen as a response to overwhelming input, traumatic experience etc, or it can be induced with meditation or medicationlike i said above, and you seem to be saying here, with practice meditating to intentionally dissociate it can be sort of controlled, which can then be useful if you have trauma-etc induced panic attacks or dissociating, can intentionally take over and "turn things off"a useful technique, to just turn off suffering at will, whether the branch in question wants to detach from rotting flesh prison, become a magical space being, or just feel kinda ok when things suckbut turning your emotions off can also mean no-happiness etc...
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@shmibs @nik @shibao not enough experience. So I think you are right actually. Now that stuff makes more sense
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@shmibs @nik @shibao I disagree with that part though. They're claiming that the monks were trying to escape their horrible surroundings by retreating into dissociation. But a lot of what monks did was garden, enjoy nature, make coffee, and look after orphans. Daoism and buddhism influenced eachother greatly in china and daoism is heavily about enjoying nature and the beauty of nature. The Pali texts meaning to reject the outside world as unholy is a very laughable interpretation. The only purpose of detaching from the senses is to take a proper look at the mind. In a lot buddhism you meditate on something else. Like your pinky finger. Or an image in your head. Or nature. Or the chime of a bell. And attach yourself to that. And experience it fully. You detach and attach. Full detachment is something that comes after jhana so I have no clue what it is. In general there's a lot of secrets to some Buddhist practices because they're dangerous to people with no
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@rizzo @shibao @nik it's hard to describe, but kinda like being a third-party outsider watching your brain think without understanding it, while body is somewhere else moving on autopilotdo stuff like stare into nothing or fly a kite or kill yourself all without noticing
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@shibao @nik @shmibs I dissociated/dissociate a lot and never got to depersonalization levels.
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@shmibs @nik @shibao hm. I feel like in normal mode I'm in a small corner of my brain though.
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@rizzo @shmibs @nik it sounds a lot like dissociation, which can quickly go to depersonalization even if you aren't careful. I only ever did it as a learned response to deal with shitty people that I couldn't get away from, had to spend a while unlearning that since you can easily begin to lose yourself
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@rizzo @nik @shibao here did couple times without noticing until afterwards, kinda shocked-back-into-existence by pain and bleeding stuff
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@shmibs @nik @shibao okay nah I've def done that. With exception to the last one. I got traumatized out of wanting suicide.
nikki
バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
Rizzo
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