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1. Rizzo (rizzo@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 05:29:47 JST Rizzo

   • 「VRISKA」
   • Infected Moomin
   @vriska @Moon it depends on what you want to do. In someways it's much superior to inorganic metals but in other ways it's lacking.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 05:29:47 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @rizzo @vriska @Moon no legitimate reason to be made from trillions of tiny fighting animals; overengineering full of dumb vulnerabilities
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 05:45:27 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @rizzo @vriska @Moon humans were only able to spread because they became cyborgs to cover for the body's weaknesses, clothing and tools and cars and thingsand there's no reason to have a heart if you don't need to squish water and little animals around, and use oxygen in a convoluted way for energy extraction that eventually kills you and have a thousand little proteins that misfold and mess things up. just get some actuators and shock absorbers and normal-person controllers / wiring. and then if something breaks you can swap it out instead of waiting months for the little animals to sort of patch it up maybe (if the tissue isn't too differentiated to replace, like a bunch of the critical components are) and then you get lumps of scar tissue and degraded functionality forever
   • Rizzo (rizzo@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 05:45:28 JST Rizzo

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @shmibs @Moon @vriska "overegineering">can adapt to any environment thrown on this little water covered rock for billions of years
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 05:56:41 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @rizzo @vriska @Moon sensors in human eyes and ears and skin have horrible inconsistent low resolution because it's "good enough". would be much better off swapping them all out, if only there was an easy way to plug into nervous systems made from finicky little squigglebugs that squish here and there and permanently die if you look at them wrong
   • Rizzo (rizzo@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 05:56:42 JST Rizzo

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @shmibs @Moon @vriska little animals repair it automatically without you even thinking about it. your complex body is too complex for your baby brain to process hence most things are done without you knowing anything about it. If we do invent machines that are good as biology I highly doubt they will be made with limited resources like plastic from dead dinosaur juice and earth metals. Rather wouldn't it be more convenient to have things that you can grow on their own, and repair itself without you having to touch it.
   • Rizzo (rizzo@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 05:56:42 JST Rizzo

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @shmibs @Moon @vriska also you know what's better than having plastic all over your body that is heavy and can get lost and stuff. Altering your tiny animals directly. Whats better wearing glasses i can break or changing the little animals in my body directly. Right now it's called lazer eye surgery~The plastic and metals you cover your body with were never ideal in the first place. Just sad little crutches.
   • Rizzo (rizzo@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 06:30:53 JST Rizzo

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @Moon @shmibs @vriska no, that's like a myth mantis shrimp brains cant combine colors like we can we can see millions of colors because of big brains mantis shrimp literally only see 12 colors with their 12 cones and rods. I don't think we'd even appreciate extra colors if we were given them. The grass is always greener on the other side.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 06:30:53 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @rizzo @vriska @Moon some people have four sensor types and can do much better at colour discrimination than people with three, who of course do better than people with twoit would also be nice to see some of the light outside our tiny limited spectrum range and have more working visual memory to review inputs (even the few extra seconds we have for sound are super usefuland have eyes that don't randomly degrade and need to be adjusted for with glasses and surgeryand have decent resolution everywhere instead of relying on one tiny spot that's single-point-of-failure susceptible to macular degenerationand not have retinas installed backwards so that there needs to be a big hole in them for all the cabling to run throughand not have them be made of meat, susceptible to infection and parasites that the immune system can't fight off without making you blind in the process
   • Infected Moomin (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 06:30:54 JST Infected Moomin

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • 「VRISKA」
     @shmibs @rizzo @vriska just get mantis shrimp eyes they're better than human eyes in like every way.
   • Rizzo (rizzo@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 06:43:53 JST Rizzo

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @shmibs @Moon @vriska everything degrades and needs to be replaced. Glass breaks and making the kind that breaks less requires more limited reasources.but meat never runs out you just grow more meat. Instead of working on something that doesn't wouldn't it make more sense to directly work with the complex meat machines instead or the limited non self repairing inorganic ones.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 06:43:53 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to
     @rizzo human bodies have very limited self-repair capabilities. damage your heart or nerves somewhere and it's permanent. lose a large chunk anywhere and it won't grow back. and even the small repairs it tries to do need a doctor-mechanic there to supervise the process for a decent outcomeif you're going to make a robot "i'll use trillions of little von neumann machines!" is not a good place to start. it means both poor serviceability and inevitable cancer (you're evolving new cancers constantly and only still around because little police bugs marching here and there eating anything that looks funny
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 06:49:19 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @rizzo and in fact improving self-repair capabilities actually means increasing the cancer rate
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 06:53:52 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     • georgia
     • pry
     @pry @georgia @rizzo @vriska @Moon epigenetics research is currently hype and irreproducible results
   • pry (pry@raru.re)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 06:53:53 JST pry

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     • georgia

     @georgia @rizzo @vriska @Moon @shmibs also this isn't even considering epigenetics yet and all the new research there

   • georgia (georgia@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 06:53:55 JST georgia

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • 「VRISKA」
     • Infected Moomin
     @rizzo @shmibs @Moon @vriska DNA is pretty amazing though much of it is noncoding
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 12:03:21 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to
     @rizzo it's not fully autonomous. it breaks down all the time without doctors and medication aroundwhen you want something not to fail you reduce the number of things to worry about. this is why cars are stuffed full of 1000 prefab computers but fighter jet or rocket gets the stripped down limited codebase instead, and why i can have 40 year old computer still working but new ones need repairs more like every decade. human bodies are too complicated and finicky to either repair themselves or have easily standardised swappable parts. the multicellular body plan works just fine for hydras or planaria, but mammals have pushed it too far
   • Rizzo (rizzo@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 12:03:22 JST Rizzo

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs "limited self repair abilities"It's fully autonomous. Aren't most machines actually composed of lots of littler machines?
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 12:26:47 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to
     @rizzo vertebrates are built for the short term, senescing after a few years to decades. engineered objects (if not themselves designed for planned obsolescence) can last longer and are easily serviceable, with modular partslarge multicellular organisms can't have long active lifestyles with effective self-repair. cancer prevents it; you always have to turn one or more of the dials down to turn another one up
   • Rizzo (rizzo@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 12:26:48 JST Rizzo

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs fighter jets can't do a wide range of tasks though. they also have no form of adaptation. they can't fix any damage on their own. They're built for the short term and organic matter is built for long term.
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 12:36:07 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @rizzo honestly, though feels stupid or rude to say maybe, but easier to see how bad a design the human body is once you have disability or chronic illness or start getting old. kids bounce all over, but then that body starts falling apart and can't ever be fixed
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 22:29:52 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة
     @ARCONITE @rizzo nobody was talking about any of those things?if you make a significant change to the environment, kill everything bigger than a basketball, and then wait a few tens of millions of years at the end of it you'll maybe get something megafauna that sort of fit the environment, and those animals will suck just as much as humans do nowand "it's a bad design" doesn't imply belief that humans were "designed" by something other than random iteration with selection. rather that, if someone *was* to design a body as replacement for a human one it could be made much better by reducing complexity, dumping the trillions-of-moving-parts model and the susceptibility to ambient pathogens and need for immune system that ends up eating itself alive half the time etc
   • ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة (arconite@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 22:29:55 JST ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة
     @shmibs @rizzo i don't think a form of synthetic non-organic life couldn't exist necessarily, but we aren't exactly in a position to comment about building successful life systems at our current level of technology. we can't even construct new organisms using known biochemistry.
   • ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة (arconite@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Monday, 22-Nov-2021 22:29:56 JST ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs @rizzo i think you're missing some vital points about organic systems. they can adapt to new conditions without the intervention of a rational actor to update or fix maladaptive traits. the human body wasn't designed at all. the fitness function of evolution doesn't work in this way nor does it care about individuality. by the metrics of evolution, humans are extremely successful and well-adapted. additionally, death is a normal part of the adaptation process. biology has no sense of self or attachment, individual members of a species are just as much cells as the microscopic lifeforms that make up our bodies. we can claim to know better for specific cases if we wish, but this whole line of thinking about human bodies being "badly designed" is simply hubris. we barely know anything.
   • ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة (arconite@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Nov-2021 02:56:35 JST ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     • ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة
     @shmibs @rizzo like, its fine to have a discussion, but this human-understanding-supreriority thing is so worn out. we barely know anything and that needs to be recognized. its cool that we know some stuff, but have some humility as a species ffs
   • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;; (shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Nov-2021 02:56:35 JST バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;

     in reply to

     • ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة
     @ARCONITE @rizzo weren't talking about those things because they were irrelevant. there are lots of details about living stuff that people don't know and maybe will never know, and that doesn't matter. a team of engineers today can't build a human body because it's too complicated, but they also don't need to.... because it's too complicatedit's enough to look at the high-level details and compare from there. we know that human bodies malfunction and self-destruct very easily, can accidentally kill each other just by standing in the same room and breathing, that i'm walking around with a messed up heart (inherited), chronic diseases (that you get from people *touching* you), and immune system that won't stop attacking me (just because), and all these problems are permanent and unfixable. and similar issues, or worse, apply to most everyone else on the planet. none of this happens, can happen, to someone with walky parts and looky parts and energy-storage parts that are built in a factory, rather than grown from some insane process of tiny little identical bugs cloning and differentiating themselves and barely holding everything in check through a mess of signalling and suppression pathways that then randomly fail over and over so that many bodies get malformed during embryogenesis and all of them, if they aren't killed by something else first, develop aggressive malignant cancersinstead of spending 4 billion years trying to replicate this stupidly complex approach that nobody understands, the engineering team can just build something simple instead, something that never gets sick and with parts that can be replaced when they're damaged. and the only current barriers to actually doing so are energy storage density and processing power, both of which are being worked on and have seen rapid improvements (lighter, stronger materials would also be nice, but not a necessity
   • ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة (arconite@letsalllovela.in)'s status on Tuesday, 23-Nov-2021 02:56:36 JST ميتشيو با: ملكة القراصنة

     in reply to

     • バツ子（痛いの痛いの飛んでけ;;
     @shmibs @rizzo yeah that's why i said them, sa sa qyou keep saying "better" like we even understand the systems in question. we literally don't know how to make any kind of living organism from scratch. we don't understand intelligence or awareness and we don't really understand biochemistry at a level that would allow for designed organisms. we literally do not have the necessary understanding of life to make these kinds of claims. its simply hubris.